			    TRAVELLER Digest 440

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: TRAVELLER digest 438 by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  2) Re: K'kree Tanks by Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>
  3) Re: Noble protocol by Scott and Vivian Nolan <nolan@DGS.dgsys.com>
  4) GNP Per Capita by TL by jllachan@midway.uchicago.edu (Joe Lachance)
  5) RE: TRAVELLER digest 438 by That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
  6) RE: GNP Per Capita by TL by That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
  7) Re: GNP Per Capita by TL by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  8) ghost.cc.missouri.edu down by Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
  9) Diplomat Ship Challenge by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
 10) General Chit-Chat, RSB!!! by cmdrx@magicnet.net (Commander X)
 11) Hacker/Computer Rules by cmdrx@magicnet.net (Commander X)
 12) Looking for Jon Fuller <AQLH90D@tricon.net> by "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
 13) Re: Diplomat Ship Challenge by "C. Pratt" <capratt@u.washington.edu>
 14) RE: Diplomatic ship contract. by "C. Pratt" <capratt@u.washington.edu>
 15) Re: Diplomatic ship contract. by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:24:19 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 438
Message-ID: <9510061724.AA12326@Rt66.com>

 
> > If someone has any spare time on their hands, and would like to help out 
> > someone who isnt graced with owning FF&S, would said person be interested 
> > in designing a ship for a primarily diplomatic role 
> 
> <Snip>
> 
> On the case.  Anyone care for a competition?

I have the original post, but what was the max TL?  

Also, what limits TL*50 MJ lasers?  Is it Imperial, Zho, RC?  

I'm game if we have those answers... 

-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:38:55 -0500
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@itlabs.umn.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: K'kree Tanks
Message-ID: <199510061738.MAA10123@natasha.itlabs.umn.edu>

Christopher Griffen wrote:
>     The reason I ask is that I want to design a k'kree tank, and I get the 
>     impression they'd want clear domes on top or something to keep from 
>     becoming claustrophobic.  Suggestions would be appreciated.

Another designer for the K'kree!  I guess I'm not the only one that
likes making these weird designs....

According to the old K'kree book, tank crews are trained like fighter
crews.  They'll have a reasonably high level of Enclosure skill which
represents training to cope with tight spaces.  With typical K'kree
herd gregariousness, they'll probably be a *very* tight outfit, too.

Hyphen (David Jacques-Watson) added:
>        3. make the inside space larger, according to the original
>           _Striker_ (or maybe the K'kree module) rules: multiply
>           human space requirements by 5, or something. K'kree
>           tanks will be BIG.

I put together some standard components based on those rules for my
Xeekr'kir! (civilian K'kree merchant) conversion.  You might find 
them useful: 

K'kree "Accomodations" 
  672 kL; 48 tons; 0.012 MW; MCr 1.
K'kree Airlocks
  36 kL; 2.4 tons; 0.012 MW; MCr 0.06; 20 square meters.
K'kree Workstations (TL13)
  168/84 kL; 0.2 tons; MCr 0.002.

Some of these figures can be shrunk down for military crews that 
have Enclosure skill, but I forget the exact figures and what a
typical skill level would be, off-hand.  "Accomodations" refers
to open space used as a stateroom or cargo space, although they
can also have normal "free" cargo space.

Clear domes would be a Bad Thing on a tank.  Can you say "visible
spectrum laser fire"?  :) Something high-tech might be worked out,
but it sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

  Steve Bonneville
  <bonn0015@tc.umn.edu>


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:48:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott and Vivian Nolan <nolan@DGS.dgsys.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Noble protocol
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.951006134720.25041D-100000@DGS>



On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Alvin Plummer wrote:

> 
> I hope that GDW retools the title "Archduke" to refer to a Sector Duke, 
> rather than a Domain Duke.  As a noble fan, I like the title, but suspect 
> that there will only be one Domain from now on.  Moreover, it will clear 
> up any current confusion due to the fact that Dukes can rule either 
> subsectors or sectors.

The Regency Sourcebook calls 'em (there's only one) Regents.

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:15:37 -0600
From: jllachan@midway.uchicago.edu (Joe Lachance)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: GNP Per Capita by TL
Message-ID: <199510061913.OAA21364@midway.uchicago.edu>

I am curious as to wether anyone has done any cmputations (using the World
Tamers Handbook) as to what the GNP/capita is for each TL.  One would
assume that a credit means much less to a citizen of TL17 Vincennes than to
an individual in a TL8 world... but just how much is the difference?

One repercussion of this would be for high TL worlds having a great number
of  starships due to finiancial reasons.  One need only look at the
_relative_ cost of a space shuttle in our own society.  Also, are the any
varient rules for high TL societies making lower TL products at reduced
cost.  One woulde think that a TL15 Class A starport could produce TL12 far
traders much cheaper than the aprox. 45MCr that these lil' beasties run
for...


Joe Lachance
University of Chicago
(jllachan@midway.uchicago.edu)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:18:08 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: TRAVELLER digest 438 
Message-ID: <199510062018.QAA05629@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Fri, 06 Oct 1995 11: 25:45 EDT
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 16:18:07 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

: From: "C. Pratt" <capratt@u.washington.edu>
: 
: > If someone has any spare time on their hands, and would like to help out 
: > someone who isnt graced with owning FF&S, would said person be interested 
: > in designing a ship for a primarily diplomatic role 
: 
: <Snip>
: 
: On the case.  Anyone care for a competition?

Sure, what are the parameters?  You know, budget, displacement,
function, etc...?

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:34:49 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: GNP Per Capita by TL 
Message-ID: <199510062034.QAA06937@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Fri, 06 Oct 1995 15: 13:37 EDT
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 16:34:48 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

: I am curious as to wether anyone has done any cmputations (using the World
: Tamers Handbook) as to what the GNP/capita is for each TL.  One would
: assume that a credit means much less to a citizen of TL17 Vincennes than to
: an individual in a TL8 world... but just how much is the difference?
: 
: One repercussion of this would be for high TL worlds having a great number
: of  starships due to finiancial reasons.  One need only look at the
: _relative_ cost of a space shuttle in our own society.  Also, are the any
: varient rules for high TL societies making lower TL products at reduced
: cost.  One woulde think that a TL15 Class A starport could produce TL12 far
: traders much cheaper than the aprox. 45MCr that these lil' beasties run
: for...

Here's where I like being an econ major, I can actually do something
useful with it once in a while!  8)

Quite simply, a TL15 world has no need to create lower TL starships. 
There is enough demand on them to create TL15 ships.  So, as a firm,
they will want to maximize their profits by producing what is being
demanded of them.

Some "earthly" examples.  Automobile factories need to retool to make
different automobiles.  There might be a significant amount of
retooling required to use lower TL materials.

When a society advances beyond a given level of production (they start
to modernize or move into other markets) there are others that are also
moving ahead (just behind them).  For example, most sneakers are now
made in Indonesia, whereas before they were made in Korea, and before
that in Hong Kong.  Both HK and Korea advanced enough technologically
that it wasn't cost effective for companies to produce the lower tech
good there anymore.

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 14:45:36 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: GNP Per Capita by TL
Message-ID: <9510062045.AA28400@Rt66.com>

Hi,
 
> One repercussion of this would be for high TL worlds having a great number
> of  starships due to financial reasons.  One need only look at the
> _relative_ cost of a space shuttle in our own society.  Also, are the any
> variant rules for high TL societies making lower TL products at reduced
> cost.  One would think that a TL15 Class A starport could produce TL12 far
> traders much cheaper than the aprox. 45MCr that these lil' beasties run
> for...

This is an interesting point, but I think it is pretty complicated.
Take for example a flintlock rifle.  A flintlock that *looks* (and
basically works like) like a flintlock is cheap to make at our TL, but
if it is made the old fashioned way it is *very* expensive (around
$10,000 from a master gunsmith--BTW, the old fashioned way means that
the barrel is hammered into a hollow cylinder, not milled from stock)

But on the other hand the "cheap" version is no cheaper than a bolt
action rifle (or an autoloader for that matter). 

It would be useful, I guess, to figure out what kinds of technologies
would not require a lot of retooling to make lower tech versions at a
reduced cost.

Lasers might fit these criteria.  A higher TL focal array might be able
to be smaller, lighter, and cheaper if it's only required to perform at the
lower TLs stats (lowering effective range, basically).

You'd think that TL15 fusion rockets would have some
mass/cost/performance improvements over the listed TL9 ones, but they
don't (even with the new ability to control nuclear forces above TL12 or
so!).  

Materials might be another area... is SD cheaper to make if you can do
BSD now?

It seems to boil down to whether or not the new technology is a
retooling jump, or just an incremental change.  If it's the latter, the
old way might be cheaper.

-Merrick

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:57:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: Joseph Heck <ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (TML Submissions)
Subject: ghost.cc.missouri.edu down
Message-ID: <199510062057.PAA115174@black.missouri.edu>

It looks like ghost.cc.missouri.edu FTP/Gopher site is going to be down for
a little while. I'm going to have to move the site to another machine, since
it's impacting my work and the server has developed a habit of crashing under
loads. 

The good news is there's a lot of traffic... :)

The server should be up under a new name in a short bit (48 hours). I'll
post when it's there.

Oh - and I have all the Rice Papers there (For BRI)

-- 
 joe                          (314) 882-5000
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    University of Missouri - Columbia  
 "with a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and
 impenetrable fog!" -- Calvin
 <A HREF="http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe">ccjoe</A>

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:57:55 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Diplomat Ship Challenge
Message-ID: <075b49e0@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

     > If someone has any spare time on their hands, and would like to help 
     out 
     > someone who isnt graced with owning FF&S, would said person be 
     interested 
     > in designing a ship for a primarily diplomatic role 
     
     <Snip>
     
     >>On the case.  Anyone care for a competition?<<
     
     You're on!  I'll post my design by Monday.
     
     --Chris (Part-time Starship Architect)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:33:53 -0400
From: cmdrx@magicnet.net (Commander X)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: General Chit-Chat, RSB!!!
Message-ID: <199510062335.TAA01943@magicnet.magicnet.net>

Greetings fellow Trav-Addicts!

I just wan't this time to let this out...

I GOT THE RSB!!!!......and there was much rejoycing.....yay!

Picked up the thing from Enterprise 1701 this morning before class, and
well, um, er, how do I describe it in one word?

PHANTASMAGORICALILICIOUSEXPIALLIDOCIUS!

This book is great!  I love the detail the put into the thing. Especialy the
history. but the ships are outrageous!  I love that little 20 ton fighter
which is just a 10 ton launch with a smeggin' huge PA attached to it!

But enough about the RSB, now for some TML buisness.

Mr. Pratt, 
I'll give your ship design a go.  You'll see the results as soon as I can
draw them up.  Those spreadsheets off the ghost page are wonderfull...

and now, as I have promised I will post the Hacker/Computer rules so eagerly
awaited for (like the smeggin' RSB!) today.

enjoy! and...


>From the RQS Fortune and Glory.
KEEP THE FLAME!!!
Commander X out....<click>
**>END TRANSMISSION<**


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:39:30 -0400
From: cmdrx@magicnet.net (Commander X)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Hacker/Computer Rules
Message-ID: <199510062341.TAA02320@magicnet.magicnet.net>

Alrighty then, here it is folks...

As promised, the hacker/cyberdeck rules...




And now for something completely the same..

COMMANDER X'S
TALES FROM THE LINE
VOLUME 2.5
MY PERSONAL COMPUTER RULES
TO ACCOMPANY VOLUME 2
HACKERS, CYBERSECKS..ETC....
(parrot sketch not included)



	The first thing we will discuss are the tools of the trade, the personal
computer.
These things look very much like(asa matter of fact they are) the hand
computers in the TNE rulebook.  I have added stats to this basic handcomp
and added varios tech levels to the basic chart.

And now, the chart...

TL	CPU/Storage	media		INTellegence	
7	   1/5		Magnetic	              3		
8	   5/10		Magnetic	              4		
9	   10/25		Optical Disk	 5		
11	   15/40		Optical Disk	 6
13	   25/50		Holocrystal	 7
15	   35/75		Holocrystal	 8
17	   50/100		Bioneural	              9

(Please note that mainframe computers multiply memory by 10)
So what does all this mean?
the CPU/Storage factor should look familiar to CT fans.  CPU is the amount
of programs(in Memory Units or MU) the computer can run at any one time.
Very much like Ancient Terran RAM chips used to do.  The storage is how much
total MU the computer may store.  Kinda like an Ancient Terran Hard Drive.
media is what kind of storage media is compatiable.  Magnetic Disk, Optical
Disk, or Holographic Datacrystal.
The big number for a computer is its INTellegence. This is a factor of how
fast and how well the computer can process data.  In actual use, it, is the
factor that will set jump co-ords when it uses a jump program, or calculate
the airspeed velocity of a Swallow, African and European!
In game terms, the computers INT works the same as a characters INT. It is
also the computers Initiative value. Where do we ge the asset from?
Programs! (thats why we have the memory stats!)

Standard programs work the same was as skills do. This info is taken right
out of the Robots rules in Vampire Fleets.  The memory cost of a standard
program is equivalent to its skill level or STRength. For example, Physics 1
costs 1 MU, Astrogation 5 costs 5 MU, etc...

That's the basic stuff,  now how do we hack things?

 Simple, first you need a computer, then some way to conect into the local
net, a datacable or a radiocom or a cell phone will do.  then you need
HACKING PROGRAMS!

Hacking programs are those programs which, well, hack.  They cost
1.5xSTR(rounded up) MU.  these are used to bash down a data fortress' walls,
decrypt data, derez ICE, and other Neato Keen ILLEGAL type stuff.

Oh, but before I show you the programs, we need to discuss Tasks.

All computer tasks are considered to be confrontational.
Computer Asset of  Hacker plus (Hackers Program Asset minus NPC Computers Asset)

Example:

To hack thru a codegate is a difficult task
Hacker has 13 Computer Asset, using a computer and a program with a total
asset of  9
The NPC computers codewall asset is a 15
13+(9-15)=13-6=7 (owch!)

Computer combat works the same way
To hit an ICE program is a difficult task confrontational (Computer Asset
+(Attack program-Defence Program)

Dammage is the skill level(not asset) of the program in d6
Hit points of the program is 2xskill level
If your defence program is gone, and the ice attacks, you are automaticaly
kicked out of the net.

Thats the basic facts for nethacking and ICE combat.

Here's a little schpiel...

Lets say I have a TL-11 handcomp
Memory=15/40 INT=6
Wallcracker 3   (5mu) for breaking datawals
Decryptor 5      (8mu) for decrypting data
Shield 3             (5mu) defence program
Fireball 3            (5mu) attack program 3d6 dammage

Ok, I enter the Efate-Net. and I search for a bank computer.  As the
holgraphic thingy's and whatsits pass by as a cruse arround the net at the
speed of light. (Meson coms are so fast! No data lag!)

Now I'm at the entrance, the hologram looks like a bank foyer. there is no
security here, just advertisement data floating arround, Ohh, thta codegate
over there looks like where they keep the account files, letts give it a go!
Loading Wallcracker,  Shield, and Fireball programs

Now Efate is TL-15(Got the RSB! ah, ha, ha!) so the computer has an INT of
8.  The codegate program is a strength 10!(wow!) so this is how I stand.
Computer 15+(my program(9)-its program(18))=6
 Roll a d20...a 5! phew! I'm in.

I look arround for my file, but theres a watchdog program in here with me!
As I don't have a stealth program, it autodetects my signal.  as it uses its
intiative of  9 to allert, I'm gonna fry it with the fireball.
15+(9-10)(watchdog is just a lv 1 program)=14, I roll a 11, 3d6 minimaly
does 3 hp and the dog only has 2 so it de-rezzes!
Quickly I look for my file, the computer is aware of my existance.  Got it,
its protected, as I load the decryptor, the computer summons up a very nasty
looking Samuri program.  It attacks, 18+(18-9)=27. it rolls a 9, the shield
is gone and I'm kicked out!
Thats how things work normaly.
Now for the abnormal...

Cyberdecks
Cyberdecks are just hand computers with a nueral jack attachment.
They make all tasks one level easier and give a +1 to initiative or speed or
the computer (remember speed=INT).  Also if ICE attacks and you have no
protection, all hits are to the HEAD!

Psionics
Psionics will show you what the computer's data looks like, but a hand
computer is still nessecary to manipulate that data.  At level 6 success all
tasks are EASY!

Well, that has to be one of my largest posts yet. If you like the rules,
good. If not, feel free to change, twist, maime or otherwise fit them for
your particular campain.

I hope this will enhance the Trav rules on computers somewhat.

CYA next time.


>From the RQS Fortune and Glory.
KEEP THE FLAME!!!
Commander X out....<click>
**>END TRANSMISSION<**


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 22:39:06 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Looking for Jon Fuller <AQLH90D@tricon.net>
Message-ID: <199510070337.AA21989@ns-1.csn.net>

Jon,
        I got your message about artwork. When I tried to reply to the
address in the message, I got a "user unknown" from tricon.net. Could you
e-mail me again with a valid address?
 ___________________________________________________________________
  Dave Golden                              PGP Public Key available
  goldendj@whip.com        http://www2.csn.net/~goldendj/index.html

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 00:57:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: "C. Pratt" <capratt@u.washington.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Diplomat Ship Challenge
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91j.951007005612.54053A-100000@homer11.u.washington.edu>


On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Christopher Griffen wrote:

>      > If someone has any spare time on their hands, and would like to help 
>      out 
>      > someone who isnt graced with owning FF&S, would said person be 
>      interested 
>      > in designing a ship for a primarily diplomatic role 
>      
>      <Snip>
>      
>      >>On the case.  Anyone care for a competition?<<
>      
>      You're on!  I'll post my design by Monday.
>      
>      --Chris (Part-time Starship Architect)
> 

Look what I've started.   Okay.  If you want a competition, then your 
shipyards are competing for the contract from me.  Feel free to ask any 
questions.  May the best design win.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:10:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: "C. Pratt" <capratt@u.washington.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: Diplomatic ship contract.
Message-ID: <Pine.A32.3.91j.951007005846.54053B@homer11.u.washington.edu>


Some more information on the requirements for the diplomatic ship, since 
there seems to be an actual desire to make it.

The ship will be used by a small group who specialize in first contact 
situations (e.g. with TEDs), arbitration between waring factions, etc.  
The best term for this group would probably be "Freelance 
Diplomats/Negotiatiors."   Hence, the ship will be put into demanding, 
and possibly violent, situations, and, while it will need the ability to be
defensible against a reasonable threat, it also needs to be unarmed 
enough so as not to present a major psychological threat.   It will need 
to be extremely fast and have most of it's armament well concealed.   
Basically, its two requisites are that 1) it be able to outrun anything 
it can't out fight (remember the about 250 MCr budget and the 40-60 
person crew) 2) it needs to be built for practically any usage (e.g. 
medical ship, scout, troop ship, etc.)   

Remember that this is a diplomatic ship so it will need to be presentable 
(read aesthetically pleasing---possibly along the lines of the interior 
of the USS Enterprise 1701-D, or the alliance ship at the very beginning 
of Star Wars).  
Also: the budget is not fixed, and if there is a very good case for a 300 
MCr ship, it will be considered.   Likewise, if someone designs a more 
than adequate ship for 230 MCr, the pricetag will be weighed as well.

Thanks all for the time and the response to my original post.


"Storm the Reality Studio. And retake the universe." -- William S. Burroughs
        Charles Pratt capratt@u.washington.edu -- when in doubt, sail.


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 09:25:52 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Diplomatic ship contract.
Message-ID: <9510071525.AA24979@Rt66.com>


What Tech Level?

-merrick

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 440
***************************
